Results are in! The final results of each poll are listed below.
Poll 1: Sean Renard won with 92.6% of 54 votes total. He blew the competition away!
Poll 2: Nick Burkhardt won with 44.3% of 61 votes total. Some of you questioned how likely he was to win in a fight with Kelly in the notes, rightfully so!
Poll 3: Diana Schade Renard won with 60% of 50 votes. And that’s fair! I certainly wouldn’t fight her.
Poll 4: Juliette Silverton a.k.a. Eve won with 71.2% of 52 votes. As she should!
Poll 5: Monroe won with 43.1% of 58 votes. But a lot of you were betting he would lose a fight to his wife (and I kinda agree tbh).
Poll 6: Martin Miesner won with 46.2% of 52 votes. We miss you king!
Poll 7: Catherine Schade won with 42.1% of 38 votes. Good thing she wasn’t up against Kelly!
Poll 8: Alexander, our favorite ambassador from the Wesen Council, won with 51.5% of 33 votes. Which is fair, considering the competition!
Poll 9: Monroe’s mom Alice won with 38.1% of 42 votes. Makes sense to me!
Poll 10: Walter Kessler (Marie and Kelly’s dad, Nick’s grandfather) won with 39.5% of 38 votes. Good on him!
(Image Not Available)
And that’s a wrap for round 1! News on round 2 is coming later tonight.
I don’t think there’s need to doubt later season!Nick being able to best his mother.
When Kelly fought Nick, he was young and inexperienced and already fought Kimura.
I also expect for Grimms to have the same discrepancy between the strength of the different sexes. Female Grimms definitely can best normal men, but I think against male Grimms the scale is uneven again.
Additionally, Nick has the advantage of his body having adapted and counteracted the cracher-mortel poison. It is, of course possible that Kelly went through the same ordeal once, since we don’t know her entire story, but I highly doubt the odds.
And he’s got super hearing, which makes him react much faster to sound, so even if she did get a drop on him visually, he can still see her coming!
Yeah exactly, the hearing also factors in.
Oh my gosh, that would be something to ponder for the WIP!
Oh another thought to ponder on is whether or not Grimm pass their adaptations onto their kids. Maybe that’s how Grimm started in the first place, someone developing an adaptation that they could see the woge, and that went onto their kids, and so on and so forth. Maybe Nick is better at being a Grimm, more resilient, because of something that happened to his mom before she had him.
Love seeing Grimm meta in my notifications again! 😊
The only thing canon really gives us is that Grimms absorb/adapt whatever makes them stronger. So it’s really a toss-up with any given set of Grimms who would win in a fight. It would all be so dependent on what training they’ve had, what uh…field experience they’ve had, what they’ve absorbed or adapted.
You could VERY generally guess that a Grimm with more active training and fighting experience would likely have the upper hand, but it’s truly impossible to say for sure. And given how much of what happened to Nick was entirely without precedent so far as at least 3 separate collections of generational magical knowledge knew, it’s unlikely Kelly or anyone else has had the same experiences. So I agree, it’s fair to say Nick would be extremely formidable by the end of the series, especially compared to the baby Grimm he started as.
Well they cured him of the zombification at the start of season three, and he just experienced a few after-effects: increased stamina and strength, ability to go for long periods without breathing, with his heart barely beating, etc.
From what I remember of early season three, this was initially an unconscious response to stimuli that he couldn’t really control. But as time went on, it’s possible he grew used to the power and learned to control it, the same way he eventually seemed able to filter out his super-hearing unless it was needed in a specific situation.
That being said…that’s ALL headcanon. They really didn’t do much with that idea once they got into the latter half of season three. I know his super hearing showed up a couple of times after that, but I don’t think the stoneform power ever showed up past season three.
One theory that’s been floated before in fandom is that the whole reason he developed, for lack of a better word, actual superpowers each time some kind of wacky magic was used on him was that one of the adaptations of the Grimm line is not only a certain level of immunity to some poisons/forms of dark magic (i.e. Nick being able to resist things like the Coins of Zakynthos)…but also the ability to incorporate anything that would make them stronger.
So when Nick gets turned into a zombie–cold-skinned, super strong and fast, never-tiring monster that doesn’t need to breathe–and then is cured of the ill effects, his body somehow manages to hold onto the useful aspects of the condition. Same story earlier on with his super-hearing. He lost the use of his eyes, so his ears just upped their game almost immediately. And then after he gets his sight back, they just kinda…keep going at that higher level without adjusting back down.
All of that to say that it’s possible when Adalind worked the spell to strip him of his Grimm powers at the end of season three, he was also stripped of most, if not all, of those adaptations as well.
And then when he gets his powers back, he either has lost all of the powers (not likely, as the hearing remained), takes some time to learn how to access them again, or loses only the purely mystical ones but keeps the super-hearing because it was a physiological change in response to the loss of his eyes rather than the side effects of a semi-mystical infection of sorts.
[cont] Juliette had a right to be hurt and angry, but the writers made her so irredeemable by having her so thoroughly betray Nick (and his mother, who did nothing to her). Adalind was kinda expected to do bad things, as she was villian for a time, but Juliette was the love interest. The one who was supposed to care about Nick. She was also friends with Rosalee yet she hurt her and tried to have Nick shoot Monroe. I just think the writers made it too easy to hate her.
This is one of those rare cases where I don’t actually think the blame falls completely on the writers for the way Juliette is viewed by a certain (very loud) section of the fandom (although I do blame them entirely for making Nadalind in any way canon even for a moment). Because if you’re not watching Grimm with misogyny goggles on, Juliette is no more hateful or horrible than any other character on the show.
I wrote a post on my personal blog a few seasons ago about the reasons Juliette is hated more avidly and consistently than other character on the show–long before anyone actually had anything like a reason. You can read that post here if you’re interested. In summary, Juliette is hated more than Adalind or Rosalee, or pretty much any recurring female side character, because she commits the apparently unforgivable sin–to a misogynistic audience–of being a female love interest with thoughts, desires, goals, and emotions which occasionally conflict with or challenge those of the male protagonist.
I would also argue that Adalind has done a lot of things before the oft-mentioned season three finale that were not done under duress. She did horrible things for power, for Sean’s attention, literally as part of her daily job, or just because she was told to. The fact that she did one of the many horrible things she’s done under duress doesn’t erase all the other awful things.
Nor does it help her case that she was still attacking one of the people she’d hurt most and taunting them with what she’d done “under duress” a few episodes before she suddenly decided she wanted to change…a growth spurt in character development which coincided suspiciously with needing help from all these people she’d hurt.
Now, consider the situation Juliette was in when she enacted her vengeance in season 4. She was under the thrall of powers that canonically influence people to do terrible things. She was suffering these powers not as someone who was born a hexenbiest, but as a regular human subject to the “side effects” of a completely experimental, untried, unpredictable set of magical circumstances.
Add to that the fact that in the span of a few days she was made to feel unwelcome and unsafe in her own home, lost her boyfriend of seven years and any concept of the future they might have had, and found herself lacking the support of any friends she thought had any hope of understanding what was happening to her. Juliette was in an extremely bad place, both mentally and emotionally, when she did the things she did. And it’s telling that she specifically attacked the things and people that symbolized what she (not incorrectly) saw as the source of all her pain: Nick’s life as a Grimm.
That doesn’t make the things she did okay, but it’s very much up for debate, on both a canonical and also a meta level, at this point whether Juliette can truly be held culpable for all the things she did–or whether the rest of Team Grimm can be truly blameless.
To be fair, Adalind had also lost a lot when she went on her vengeance spree…but recall that she was not under the influence of hexenbiest powers when she put Juliette in a coma. A coma that resulted in her losing all memories of Nick and developing a dangerous magical obsession with Sean that could have killed them both.
Juliette did the things she did because she was scared, angry, alone, grieving, and under the influence of dangerous, uncharted magic. Arguably, her emotions directed her destructive behavior’s targets but did not cause the destructive behavior itself. After all, Juliette has been all of those things before, and has never attacked the people she cares about or blamed them for her own pain. In fact, before the hexenbiest powers it was much more in-character for Juliette to put aside her own concerns in favor of what her friends might need at any point in time.
Adalind, on the other hand, did what she did because she was scared, angry, alone, grieving, and that was her pure human reaction: to lash out and hurt people, including innocent people who’d never done anything to her. Her emotions may have directed her destructive behavior’s targets, but Adalind herself caused the destructive behavior. She had no powers to be her excuse or explanation.
The reason fandom finds the one lovable and the other unacceptable is that Adalind was introduced as a villain and thus allowed to do her villain thing with audience impunity, whereas Juliette was introduced as a love interest and vilified by the audience every time she dared to do anything that wasn’t 100% sycophantically in line with whatever Nick might want or need. Add in a heaping dose of rape culture encouraging audiences to see healthy relationships as “boring” and aggressive, violent ones as “passionate,” and there you have it: the main reason many fans prefer Adalind over Juliette as Nick’s endgame love interest.
You mean besides Renard’s epic betrayal? Knowing these writers, it could be anyone. But of everyone, the three most likely candidates for me are:
Adalind – I find her most likely out of them because although she may love Nick (or think she loves him, it could still be magic weirdness), she also has two small children that she will always put before anything or anyone else. They’ve proven to be her pressure point in the past, and they could be again. If it comes down to Nick or her kids? No contest.
Juliette/Eve – I really don’t want this to be the case, but Julieve is still such an unknown in so many ways. Based on the end of last season and the start of this one, I want to think she’d come down on Nick’s side no matter what. But there’s a lot of pain, grief, and conflict swimming around in there. It’s just hard to know for sure.
Trubel – She seems to me the least likely to betray Nick, but…well, she kind of has before. She came to retrieve Juliette without talking to Nick about it on behalf of HW at the end of season four. She seems to do what they tell her to, for the most part. So what if HW told her to take Nick out? I’d like to think she’d balk, but we’ve seen less and less of her…they brainwashed Juliette’s personality away, who knows what they might have done to Trubel in all that off-screen time?
It wasn’t the twinning spell itself that turned Juliette into a Hexenbiest. It was a side-effect of the ritual they did later to return Nick’s Grimm abilities.
Nick’s blood is anathema to Hexenbiests. It literally banishes Hexenbiest powers, presumably Zauberbiest powers as well. Adalind and Juliette are immune to the effects, but there’s no reason to think Renard would be. So it’s likely Renard’s powers couldn’t take root or “live” in Nick’s body once he’s returned to his true form.
That being said, Nick–possibly Grimms in general but especially Nick–tends to absorb some of the traits of any magic he encounters. When he was attacked by the Jinnamuru Xunte, he developed super hearing after just a few hours of blindness.
And when Baron Samedi subjected him to the Dämmerzustand, he gained super strength (at least temporarily), superhuman stamina, that weird “stoneform” thing he used to do occasionally, and the ability to go long stretches without needing to breathe.
So it’s possible that his body would just absorb the Zauberbiest powers like it absorbs every other semi-useful trait or ability it comes into contact with. We’ll just have to wait and see!
So with the introduction of Josh as a non-Grimm son of a Grimm, I’ve been working on the theory that “Grimm-ness” is inherited as a dominant sex-linked trait and it has to be X-linked dominant inheritance.
Based on these permutations, I would like to take one…
My only question is, and I could just be missing something here, is Josh (the human son of a male Grimm) completely confirmed to not be a Grimm, or is it possible he just hasn’t presented as a Grimm yet?
And this opens up a whole new aspect to Grimm genetics- like, it’s been established that girls grow into their Grimm-ness much early than boys, which implies that the gene activates during a certain age window. But what triggers it? Hormones?
And it might not have anything to do with age, since girls could have two copies of the Grimm gene and therefore have a higher chance than boys of encountering whatever causes the activation.
(Though I’m leaning towards the age theory, because Nick began seeing Wesen before there was really anything that could work as a trigger)
So that would make being a Grimm a sort of second puberty, right? The same way that Wesen do it- remember that episode with the little girl (I think she was a badger Wesen?) who presented as a Wesen long before puberty- which established that shifting into Wesen isn’t something that presents at birth nor is it something that happens alongside puberty. Maybe Grimms do it the same way.
In that case, unless I’m mistaken, Josh could still end up a Grimm- just an immature one right now. Because, honestly, he doesn’t look that old and Nick was in his mid/late-twenties before he began seeing Wesen.
(BTW, I love doing genetics problems, so this is wonderful)
(Also, where’s the post on Wesen genetic distribution? I’m of the belief that Grimms are more like Wesen than either group would like to admit, so it might help to look at both; see if anything makes more sense that way.)
I mean, they kind of implied that the impending death of a family member could trigger it in male Grimms in the series pilot, which would mean Josh is absolutely not a Grimm since his father died and he didn’t start seeing Wesen. But that theory was never fully explained or expanded upon, and couldn’t be as simple as a traditional familial line of succession, since we later learn that Kelly was still alive when Marie died.
Now if Nick were Marie’s son instead of Kelly’s, and Marie was the older sibling (not sure that’s ever confirmed), then it might make a little more sense, as a traditional line of succession would usually go through the eldest child and their offspring first. But Kelly was already a Grimm, so that doesn’t quite work, either.
Unfortunately, we have so few Grimm families to go on that it makes it hard to come up with a complete theory that covers all bases and closes all loopholes. And I highly doubt Kelly Jr. will clarify matters at all, since he’s a special case with no known precedent and likely won’t follow any of the “rules” of usual Grimm inheritance (whatever those may be).
I do agree that Grimms are more like Wesen than either would like to admit. But all we know from the show when it comes to Wesen genetics is explained thus by Monroe and Rosalee in “Stories We Tell Our Young”:
Wesen + Human = 50/50 chance of Wesen child (Sean is one example)
Kehrseite-Genträger* + Wesen = Wesen child
Two Different Wesen =
Vorherrscher** (Monroe and Rosalee’s baby will be an example)
*A human who carries a Wesen gene but shows no Wesen characteristics, i.e. cannot woge.
**A hybrid Wesen with a combination of both parents’ traits, with the dominant genes’ characteristics being more prominent. It is not explicitly stated what makes some Wesen genes more dominant.
That explanation is actually part of how @irreverentcatalyst worked out this theory, if I remember correctly. She reasoned that it couldn’t work exactly like that for humans, because of what we knew of Nick and Josh’s parentage. Therefore, there had to be another factor, such as the Grimm traits being linked to sex chromosomes.
We did get a tweet from the writers at one point that the science in her theory was sound, but they coyly refused to confirm or deny it as absolute fact (as they said those “big-M Mythology” details were held close to the chest by the show creators).
The further I get into my rewatch of season one for the Grimm Stats, the more early signs I see of Renard eventually turning out the way he is at the end of season 5. And I don’t want to believe it, because I still hate that it feels like none of the friendship and character development we’ve seen with him and the team the last three years has been real. But at the same time, I’m beginning to consider that it isn’t so simple. Perhaps it’s not so much that Renard’s friendship with the team wasn’t “real” as that it wasn’t as important as what Black Claw was offering.
In “Last Grimm Standing,” Renard goes to a severely creepy priest to get “justice” meted out toward Leo Taymor. And before they part ways, they say “as it was before, so shall it be again.”
Now on the surface he’s just paraphrasing Ecclesiastes 1:9 to a priest, but in the context of everything that happened after and everything we know about Renard’s life, maybe it’s more than that.
Taken with everything else we know, it seems like at his core, Sean Renard longs–and has always longed–for a return to “days of yore.” Perhaps not in the way most people would think of that phrase, but in a personal sense: a return to the security he felt as a child, to a world that treated him a certain way and afforded him certain things. But he wants it to happen in a very specific way: one that would recognize his importance as both a royal and a zauberbiest, without pitting one side against the other or demanding he limit himself in any way for the benefit of humans. In short, one that allows him to be powerful. Because power is what he values most.
Renard learned from a young age that loyalty, family, and friendship are conditional and changeable. On the whim of the queen, his life became forfeit at the age of thirteen, and he and his mother had to flee everything they knew and loved in order to survive. In his experience, no amount of affection or sentimental attachment can stand up in the face of power. Is it any wonder he would choose power over friends?
That’s why he wants the keys: they promise ultimate power. That’s why he wants the coins, too. And ultimately, that’s why he wants Nick on his side so badly: a Grimm is a powerful ally, and the more Nick proves himself a friend of Wesen and someone that Wesen respect and even like, the more powerful an ally he has the potential to be.
Power. Leverage. Common end goals, however temporarily. That’s why Renard aligns with Team Grimm, the Laufer, and Black Claw but not with the Royals, the Wesenrein, the Verrat, the Wesen Council, or Hadrian’s Wall. All five of those latter groups seek, from their perspectives, to preserve something. But none of them would benefit Renard in the end.
The Wesenrein would find him abhorrent. They wish for a return, to a (probably mythical) time of “Wesen purity,” and would view Renard’s very existence (to say nothing of his child’s) as an affront to that goal.
Hadrian’s Wall, the Royals, the Verrat, and the Wesen Council, on the other hand, are all dedicated to maintaining the current status quo in various ways. The Royals want to retain their power, and they shunned Sean as a child for being half-zauberbiest and a bastard. The Wesen Council want to maintain the secrecy of the Wesen world, which limits Renard’s ability to gain power and mobilize against his enemies. The Verrat are mostly just tools the Royals use to achieve their goals, and they only grudgingly acknowledge Renard’s limited authority. Hadrian’s Wall primarily fights to keep Black Claw at bay, thus preserving Wesen secrecy and limiting the rise of a significant Wesen institution that would upset the existing balance of power.
But Team Grimm? Everything about them flouts the rules and expectations of the Wesenrein, the Royals, the Verrat, and even the Wesen Council. He watches for over a year as Nick helps Wesen who are innocent and tries, as much as possible, to deal with those who aren’t within the confines of human law. He can’t help but note Nick’s friendship with Monroe and Rosalee, and their growing romantic relationship besides. And he realizes, when he finally reveals the truth of himself to them, that they mistrust him primarily because he’s done shady things, not because of who or what he is. To put it simply, they accept him. And that acceptance, while not a goal in the same way that power is a goal, is something that Sean Renard craves.
We see it in “Three Coins in a Fuchsbau”: Renard wants power, yes, but he also wants recognition, and adoration. He wants people to listen to him and follow him. He wants them to respect him, and yes, to love him. And none of those things are ever going to be gained if he isn’t first accepted. The team accepts him. And his bond with them, though tenuous at first, is truly based on trust, friendship, and mutual affection. He cares about them and appreciates that they care for him. The events of seasons three and four clearly show that this is the case.
His alliance with the Laufer is relatively brief, and much more tenuous. They could never be true, long-term allies because they mistrust his human side as much as the Royals mistrust his zauberbiest side. They are also suspicious of his motives, as he is of their methods. But at the end of the day, they have common goals–at least for the moment. So he works with them to achieve those goals, and then they go their separate ways in peace.
Finally, we have Black Claw. They come to him in season five and offer him everything he has ever wanted: acceptance, power, recognition, public adoration…and his daughter, back with him at last, safe and sound. He goes reluctantly, at first–he knows Nick and the team won’t like it, and I think he also knows they won’t follow–but go he does. As important as they may be to him, Team Grimm can only offer him friendship, and that is (sadly) not enough for Renard in the grand scheme of things. Not when Black Claw is offering him everything else.
Perhaps he tells himself he has no choice. Maybe he thinks he can eventually make other friends…or that some of them may yet change their minds when they see that Black Claw’s success is inevitable. He hopes for it enough, at least, to try and convince Nick to join him. But when it comes down to it, if he can’t have both, he’s going to pick the one offering him the thing that his experience says cannot be broken or threatened so easily.
Because sure, friends may be nice to have to a point, but at the end of the day, he also sees them as a potential weakness. After all, as he told Adalind in “Island of Dreams”: The way to a man’s soul is through his friends.
Can we talk about this? Because at first I reacted to this with the same level of eyeroll-incredulity as Trubel. “Don’t make mistakes?” Yeah okay I’ll get right on that.
But then I thought: this is coming from Eve, who is not a perfectionist or Trubel’s boss or anything else that would suggest she’s giving an order. In fact, Trubel and Eve are probably the closest thing either one has had to a friend or equal within Hadrian’s Wall.
So…what if this is Eve’s stilted, robotic attempt at trying to give Trubel friendly advice? After all, who knows better than Eve what happens when you allow yourself to feel emotions and make mistakes? The last time Juliette Silverton felt angry, she made a lot of mistakes…and she lost everything.
And then, too, there’s what she says after this, about how she thinks it’s the reaction to one’s choices that decide whether they were good or bad, not the person who makes the choices (and implicitly, not the intentions, reasons, or even results of those choices).
The really heartbreaking thing is that Eve isn’t just saying to Trubel, “don’t allow your emotions to cloud your judgment or distract you into messing up.” She’s not saying don’t make a mistake. She’s saying don’t make mistakes, period.
Because when she’s sifting through the many mistakes Juliette made, it doesn’t escape her notice that Juliette’s choices were judged and found wanting long before the mistakes were big, and deadly, and irreparable. Long before her intentions were anything but good and loving.
So she tells Trubel: Don’t make mistakes. Don’t feel things and make choices because at the end of the day, you’re not the one who controls how people will react to those choices. And all it takes is one choice they don’t like to bring everything crashing down.
i always wondered where this perception that grimm’s were unkillable came from. i mean, it was such an odd thing for wesen to believe, especially since we saw and were made aware of the fact that grimm’s were NOT invincible. they might be harder to kill but they can be killed and yet, a perception like that would have had to have come from somewhere and what if it was connected to the stick. we saw nick get shot twice, once straight through the heart. he should have been dead and the cop who shot him thought he was dead only to literally have him rise from the dead to kill him. i completely forgot that nick had that stick in his pocket and was just blown away by the fact that he wasn’t killed and knowing that he had it on him during that fight made me wonder…what if the same thing happened centuries ago? grimm’s had that stick or pieces of it on them and were attacked or killed by wesen only to get up and continue fighting? anyone who saw that would think that grimm’s were invincible and perhaps that is where the reapers came from. they were created specifically to kill grimm’s because everyone believed that they were unkillable. they kill grimm’s by cutting off their heads but what purpose can taking the heads with them serve unless, they thought it was the only way to make sure that grimm’s were unable to come back to life after they had died. pretty out there theory, i know but after the finale – it just feels like a lot that was unexplained throughout the series just suddenly makes sense.
(part 2 of 2) Also Renard is REALLY firm that he isn’t a Hexenbeist so maybe he doesn’t have the same issues with his beist side along with the lack of abilities that we’ve seen. Mind it could simply be a gender thing but still I’d really like the show to clarify either way. Also using their beist as an excuse for hurting/killing reminds me of people using mental illness as an excuse and as a mentally ill person I"m finding it insulting… Am I the only one who noticed that?
Renard realized Rachel and Co. were with Black Claw the minute he found out she was part of the plot to kill Andrew Dixon (near the end of “Into the Schwarzwald”), because he knew, via Eve and Meisner, that the man who killed Dixon was a Black Claw operative, as was Lucien, who met with Renard shortly after he confronted Rachel.
And honestly? I would love for that possibility (that he’s working to take them down) to be correct, because otherwise what he’s doing really doesn’t make much sense to me.
I mean, even if he’s trying to take them down, it doesn’t make much sense, but at least it wouldn’t feel like a slap in the face to four and a half years’ worth of character and relationship development. I’m also fine with the notion that he’s with them in order to get Diana back, except that I can’t figure out why he wouldn’t have just trusted Nick and Hank with that information.
As for the mental illness parallel, you’re not the only one to make the comparison. I’ve definitely seen a few different Grimm fans mention that the way the show treats hexenbiest powers seems like a metaphor for mental illness. Although not a very good or well-handled one.
I think they’ve mixed their metaphors too much on this one, personally. Do hexenbiest powers change who a person is? Or don’t they? Who knows! I mean we’ve seen at least two hexenbiests who weren’t doing damage left and right (Henrietta and Elizabeth) and we’ve also seen Adalind do just as much damage while her powers were completely gone as she did when she had them. Not to mention that at the moment she’s just about the nicest she’s ever been, and she has her powers.
Sometimes it does seem to me like a general (and stigmatizing, and again, poorly-handled) mental illness metaphor. At others it seems like they’re treating it like classic possession…with the whole floating “evil spirit” thing that left Adalind when she was de-powered in season one and then re-entered her when she performed the ritual to get her powers back.
And then at still other times it seems like it’s very specifically a metaphor for addictive disorders, with the powers themselves being the object of the addiction rather than the illness itself. But even that breaks down depending on which hexenbiest we’re talking about, and when.
Then again you have characters insisting that being a hexenbiest fundamentally changes you, while having your two principle hexenbiests treat what they did during that time in totally different ways: Adalind doesn’t shy away from responsibility for the things she did, she apologizes for them and expresses regret and a wish to undo those things.
Eve, on the other hand, has distanced herself from Juliette and the things she did as completely as possible, deflects responsibility, and claims to feel no regret or remorse for any of it, although that in itself could be due to a separate mental illness (PTSD, dissociative identity disorder, maybe both).
All this to say that no, I’ve never thought of the whole “the biest made me do it” thing in that light, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a valid interpretation or that your feelings about it aren’t valid. It just means the writing around that topic is so gotdamn convoluted that I haven’t been able to draw coherent parallels about it yet.
FYeahNickBurkhardt (Tumblr Backup) 