Tag: grimm writers

This may sound petty, but the only thing i could think of when i read about the spin-off was the dark possibility for anything ooc!Adalind or yet more rape-treated-as-romance. All the people involved never addressed their mistakes as far as i’m aware. I doubt they care. It makes me more sad than hopeful. :(

It’s not petty. It’s understandable. Those writing decisions hurt a lot of fans, and angered many more. I had friends who had to leave the fandom completely over the choices the writers made in seasons 5-6.

And in my opinion the route they chose to go with Adalind and Nick will always be the worst decision the writers made. It killed the ratings, and quite probably killed the show itself. Without that, I honestly think we would be starting season seven right now, with no end in sight.

All of that being said, we have some things going into this spinoff that we didn’t have last time around:

A woman on the show’s creative team. Although I loved them, the Grimm writers were a total boys club.

And I’m not saying that men are automatically less sensitive than women when it comes to matters surrounding sexual assault, or that women are automatically moreso, but statistically speaking they can be.

The #MeToo movement. Grimm lived and died before #MeToo and #TimesUp had gained a solid foothold in Hollywood. It was easy to ignore or write poorly about sexual assault. It was easy to be maliciously sexist or just lazy and uninformed.

Those days are gone, at least for the moment. Even people who somehow don’t care about the issues still have to care about the optics.

Now, whether these things will translate into better handling of sexual assault on Grimm 2.0 is anyone’s guess. But personally, I choose to hope that a group of creators who failed us in one respect have gotten better and will not fail us again.

That may be naive of me. We’ll just have to wait and see.

tumblr_oae7amtiqz1rx652j

Top 5 Grimm Moments by Season

Season 2, #1: Nick is captured by Prince Eric and the Baron in 2×22, “Goodnight, Sweet Grimm” 

This is another one of those game-changer moments. Not only did it crank the stakes way up, it fundamentally changed Nick in ways that we still don’t fully understand.

Of course, we all knew on some level that Nick would be back for season three, because most shows don’t kill off or incapacitate their main protagonist for very long. But I’m reminded of a quote from Bruce Coville: “living through something doesn’t mean you haven’t come out different on the other side.”

This was one of those instances where even though I was pretty sure Nick would live, I had no idea who–or what–he would be when he woke up from that cursed sleep.

It was also one of those instances where the Grimm Writers showed their powers of Jedi Mindfuckery, because no matter how hard I tried to believe Nick was going to be okay, that final image of Nick was always in the back of my mind, the Grimm Writers’ metaphorical hands waving in front of my face, murmuring “but will he though?”

(Source: tumblr_oae7amtiqz1rx652j

Top 5 Grimm Moments by Season

Season 2, #1: Nick is captured by Prince Eric and the Baron in 2×22, “Goodnight, Sweet Grimm” 

This is another one of those game-changer moments. Not only did it crank the stakes way up, it fundamentally changed Nick in ways that we still don’t fully understand.

Of course, we all knew on some level that Nick would be back for season three, because most shows don’t kill off or incapacitate their main protagonist for very long. But I’m reminded of a quote from Bruce Coville: “living through something doesn’t mean you haven’t come out different on the other side.”

This was one of those instances where even though I was pretty sure Nick would live, I had no idea who–or what–he would be when he woke up from that cursed sleep.

It was also one of those instances where the Grimm Writers showed their powers of Jedi Mindfuckery, because no matter how hard I tried to believe Nick was going to be okay, that final image of Nick was always in the back of my mind, the Grimm Writers’ metaphorical hands waving in front of my face, murmuring “but will he though?”

)

I didn’t ship nadalind, silverhardt all the way, but I don’t think the writers should kill off Adalind. It’s weird I don’t like her and I never have, but I feel like it would be a cheap cop-out, not to mention terrible writing, to kill of Adalind after her character arc however forced it was. I want them to complete her story in a way that works, not just kill her. Maybe this comes from being a writer but… they decided to develop her like that and now they should deal with it. Your thoughts?

Anon, I’m totally with you! I would much rather have the writers finish Adalind’s storyline in a way that makes sense, answers some questions, clears up some inconsistencies, and feels satisfying and worthy of everything that came before than just summarily kill her off and be done with it.

Killing her off would be lazy and wouldn’t even begin to do justice to the roller-coaster of an arc she’s been on over the last five years. No matter how they did it, it just wouldn’t feel like a good ending for her.

In fact, I’d rather the writers didn’t kill any member of Team Grimm…they’ve all had some incredible arcs, and just killing everybody–or even mostly everybody–at the end wouldn’t really fit with the tone and the story they’ve set up previously. So…yeah, let’s hope they don’t do that.

What do you mean by not liiking the tone of this season?

Well, I can’t tell you for certain what the anon meant when they asked that question, but I can give you a short list of the things about this season I haven’t liked at all, which have worked together to contribute to the problem:

  • the forced development of a romance that makes no sense between Nick and Adalind.
  • the “hexenbiests and zauberbiests can’t help being bad” thing that is the only explanation they’ve given so far for why Team Grimm (and the audience) should forgive Adalind or why Sean is acting so OOC.
  • Sean being completely out of character, while we’re at it, and the show giving no decent explanation for the sudden change.
  • years of character development for Sean and relationship development between him and the rest of Team Grimm thrown out the window.
  • everyone blaming Juliette for what happened to her while never taking responsibility for their part in it (except Rosalee, god bless Rosalee).
  • Adalind getting tons of understanding, support, and the benefit of the doubt from Team Grimm while having done nothing to earn any of it (and in fact having a history that suggests she shouldn’t be given any of those things).
  • Adalind’s entire character and her arc being scrapped with a retcon that waters her down and robs her of nearly all agency (not to mention makes no sense in the context of the rest of the show).
  • the show abandoning several important themes that have always been at the heart of it (the power of choice over nature, for example).
  • Bud Wurstner being nowhere to be found.
  • the lack of trust between the members of Team Grimm (because I absolutely consider Sean a member of Team Grimm); the split and messed up and uncertain loyalties between people who were toasting to their friendship after risking everything to save one of their own barely more than a year ago.
  • the general “sea change without satisfactory explanation” that has been enacted on so many characters, relationships, and world dynamics.
  • the show’s continued inability/unwillingness to acknowledge that men can be victims of rape.

Just to name a few. I’m still hoping the Grimm Writers will pull through in the eleventh hour, but even if they do, some of this will seem just completely unnecessary.

And the really sad thing is, I think they’re doing most of this to try and make the show seem darker. Yet overall, the show is not really any darker than it’s ever been. Just murkier. Nothing makes sense, and not necessarily in a way that feels intentional.

If Adalind can be forgiven & redeemed, Juliette deserves the same. She can come back from this “Eve” thing. Maybe she can’t be completely Juliette again – she’s been traumatized and Eve will always be a part of her. But I think that Juliette can come back, if more broken & layered & I’d like to see that. It’d be a nice character arc. I’d also like to see her & Nick gradually build trust again and… yes, slowly find the love they lost. Maybe that’s silly of me but its what I want. Your thoughts?

Well, first let me say that I don’t buy that Adalind has been forgiven and redeemed, not completely and even if in the eyes of the characters, certainly not in the eyes of the fandom. There are many who still have a huge problem with Adalind, don’t trust her, don’t believe she’s done anything real to make up for everything she did before, and don’t want to see her with Nick.

That being said, I absolutely believe Juliette can be redeemed, if only because the writers, directors, and Bitsie have done a much better job in her case of showing the conflict and lack of control during her downward spiral as well as the complete disconnect and lack of personal identity within Eve. Every step of the way we have been reminded of these things.

Plus, it was pretty obvious to anyone who didn’t absolutely hate Juliette and want her dead already that the back half of season four was completely beyond her control. That’s how it was acted. That’s how it was written.

That’s why it was so tragic: she was spiraling down into this abyss of uncontrollable rage and pain and reacting without being able to control it, then suddenly coming to the surface and seeing what she’d done and being horrified by it. And she could see it and feel herself being lost, and we as the audience could, but none of the other characters seemed to understand it or care that much unless she was causing them a direct problem, and then they only cared about stopping her, not truly helping her.

So based on the job they did writing that arc, and based on the person Juliette was before all of this, I think redemption is definitely possible for her and something I am also absolutely hoping for, even though I too think Eve will always be a part of who she is (just as the things she did in season four will, no matter how in or out of control she was, always haunt her). You’re right that it would likely make for a much more layered, nuanced character and it would be amazing to watch.

I’m not sure I would want to see anything romantic between her and Nick, at least not for a long time (and we’re no longer as certain as we once were that we have many more seasons to look forward to, unfortunately), but I do think there’s potential there for something, especially since all of the interactions in which Eve seems most like Juliette center around Nick and protecting him.

Now here’s where I have an issue with Adalind’s arc, and forgive me for using your ask to jump on a soap box, but this thing the writers have done with her character really bugs me.

Adalind’s supposed 180 this season is a much more difficult redemption arc for me to swallow than any possible redemption for Juliette. They’ve used a massive retcon (more on that in a moment) and tried a lot of the “pat the dog” technique this season to try and rehabilitate her character (more on that term and what it means here), but to me that’s just…not nearly enough.

It’s all well and good to start saying now that all hexenbiests and zauberbiests (not just the one completely unique case of an ordinary human turned into one overnight by experimental magic’s side effects) are out of control and destructive, but the fact is we have direct evidence to the contrary spanning the entire show.

The retcon is so obvious it’s almost laughable. It’s kind of difficult to bring that explanation in at the eleventh hour, just when they want us to like and forgive this character for all she’s done, and make it believable. Not to mention it robs Adalind of all her agency, calls her entire character and arc into question, and takes away any chance of real redemption for her in the future.

It’s especially difficult to buy when the way Adalind’s arc was written showed her, up until the very end of season four, not only reveling in the chaos she caused with no remorse or conflicted feelings whatsoever, but gloating about the pain she inflicted on others repeatedly.

In fact, mere episodes before she was suddenly all contrite and wanting to help save Juliette and give up her own powers for her child’s sake, she was attacking Juliette in her home, bragging to Juliette about how much fun she had raping Nick, and using the pregnancy that resulted from that rape to coerce and manipulate Nick into helping her.

It was so disingenuous a switch that even fans who adored Adalind didn’t fully buy it. Many of them were sure she was running some kind of long game of her own, for god knows what purpose.

Not only that, but a lot of the messed up things Adalind did, as has been pointed out again and again by so many people in this fandom, she did while she had no powers at all to blame her actions on.

So it’s just…harder to make that explanation stick when you apply it to all hexenbiests and zauberbiests, especially when that runs directly counter to literally every core theme of the show, than if they had just confined it to Juliette’s ultra-unique circumstances. And I think the net result has been a fundamental fucking up of both characters’ arcs that I’m not sure how the writers plan to fix.

So TL;DR: While I definitely think Juliette is redeemable and moreover deserves that redemptive arc, I also think the writers screwed up royally with trying to use the same mechanism that made Juliette’s downward spiral forgivable to also retcon Adalind’s entire character arc, because it just doesn’t make any sense with everything else we already know from previous seasons.

I wish I had more faith in Grimm but I have just gotten to the point with shows this season that as soon as I hear that someone is being killed off, I think it is going to be a person of color, a female of an lgbt character. I don’t want to think that Hank will be the one who dies but he just seems like it will be him.

I’m worried about this too, for sure. I want–really, really want–to have faith in the Grimm Writers. I keep reminding myself of all the times I thought they were about to let me down only to be pleasantly surprised. But over this last seasons, it’s gotten harder to trust not only because of certain developments within this show, but also because of the general climate of “kill everyone who’s not a straight, white cismale” on other shows as well.

So believe me when I say I am with you in your anxiety. I am seriously concerned about Hank and almost dreading the last three episodes because of my worries over what could happen to him.

If I could talk to the Grimm Writers and say one thing to them right now, it would be “please don’t kill Hank. Or Wu. You have no idea how important they are. The message you’d be contributing to would be horrible. Please.”

Ok this question is just in the line of my another colleage anon, about have Bitsie and some GrimmWriters blocking to their fans . Ok i don´t have instagram, and i rarely interact in twitter and never in facebook, i don´t like make that. But i think that is quite inadvisable to declare war on your audience don´t you think? some ppl were blocked basically for say that Bitsie ” is not a good actress” since when a Show is not opened to all type of reviews? a show is made for that precisely not?

Well no, anon, I don’t think. I don’t think blocking rude people is even remotely comparable to “declaring war on your audience,” for one thing. For another, as I said in my previous post, I have never once seen a Grimm fan get blocked for respectful criticism, questions, and/or discussion.

Now assuming any of the claims of blocking being made are true–seeing as no one has bothered to provide any source for these accusations–showing up on someone’s personal instagram and saying they’re no good is not a “review.” It’s basically like knocking on someone’s front door and being like “you suck.” And the kind of comment you reference here is way at the lower end of the kind of bullshit Bitsie Tulloch gets daily on her instagram account, so it’s not even that relevant an example.

There’s no good reason for that kind of comment. It’s plain and simple meanness with no other purpose. People who post that kind of thing aren’t improving the show, they’re definitely not making the cast, crew, and writers want to interact with fans or listen to them more, and they’re not improving anyone’s performance. It’s useless, unnecessary rudeness, and exactly the kind of comment that should get people blocked.

Now, this is the last thing I’m going to say about this topic, although if other admins want to chime in they’re welcome to:

I’ve had a few fan experiences–in different fandoms, and one as recently as last night–over the years, and there are always fans in every fandom who have weird ideas about what they’re owed for watching, or listening, or reading, or buying. Frankly, it’s embarrassing and I’m tired of it. It’s a large part of the reason I typically opt NOT to meet or interact with the people who create the things I love even when the opportunity presents itself: I don’t want to be grouped in their minds with the kind of bratty, petty people who assume they’re owed more just for liking something.

So I feel pretty strongly that audience members who get all up in arms about what the creators owe their fans need to remember two things:

  1. The people who make our entertainment don’t owe us a goddamn thing, interaction-wise. They make a thing, we support it, they keep making the thing…and that’s it. That’s all they owe. The fact that they interact with us beyond the product they make is not an obligation, but a gift. It’s something they choose to do. And if they choose to stop interacting with certain people who take advantage of that to be needlessly rude, they have every right to do so.
  2. These are actual living, breathing people and those people have just as much right to their feelings as anyone else. If they don’t want to deal with negativity in their online spaces, especially the kind that’s pure vitriol and serves no actual purpose, then they don’t have to. And that doesn’t make them bad at their jobs or interfere with the “purpose” of their show.